EP 20: Nessie Cryptid History: Loch Ness Monster Origins & Folklore

Watch/Listen to this Episode Nessie Cryptid History: Loch Ness Monster Origins & Folklore License Info Nessie Cryptid History: Loch Ness Monster Origins & Folklore Transcription Nessie Cryptid History: Loch Ness Monster Origins & Folklore

A Lake Born of Cataclysm

Loch Ness owes its existence to deep geological trauma. Long before the last Ice Age, a massive earthquake tore through what is now Scotland, creating a rift that later filled with glaciers. As the glaciers melted, they formed several lakes, including Loch Ness. The result is a body of water that is unusually deep for its size—over 800 feet in places—making it one of the deepest lakes in the British Isles.

Its depth is only part of the mystery. Loch Ness is dark, cold, and filled with peat, which severely limits visibility. These conditions complicate exploration and make the loch a perfect setting for cryptid legends. Sonar scans are often unreliable due to strange acoustics, producing false shapes or exaggerated readings that continue to fuel speculation within Nessie cryptid history.

Early Accounts in Nessie Cryptid History

The legend of a creature in Loch Ness predates modern photography by more than a thousand years. One of the earliest recorded encounters comes from the 6th century, involving St. Columba. According to the account, a swimmer was attacked by a terrifying creature in the River Ness, which connects to the loch.

St. Columba is said to have confronted the creature and driven it away through divine authority. Whether viewed as miracle, metaphor, or myth, this story places Nessie firmly within early medieval belief systems where water was considered both sacred and dangerous.

Folklore Foundations of Nessie Cryptid History

Long before Nessie was imagined as a dinosaur-like creature, Scottish folklore told stories of kelpies—shape-shifting water spirits associated with rivers and lakes. These beings could appear as horses, humans, or monstrous entities and were known for luring victims into the water.

In this context, the Loch Ness Monster fits comfortably within a tradition of supernatural water guardians rather than undiscovered animals. Ancient cultures did not draw hard boundaries between the natural and supernatural, and Loch Ness existed as a liminal space where the two worlds overlapped.

The Victorian Turn in Nessie Cryptid History

The modern image of Nessie emerged in the early 20th century, shaped heavily by public fascination with dinosaurs and popular cinema. Famous photographs from the 1930s, including the Surgeon's Photo, cemented the idea of Nessie as a long-necked, plesiosaur-like creature.

Although many of these images were later revealed as hoaxes or misidentifications, they permanently altered Nessie cryptid history. From this point forward, the monster was increasingly framed as a biological mystery rather than a folkloric one.

Science, Skepticism, and Nessie Cryptid History

Scientific investigations into Loch Ness have produced no conclusive evidence of a large unknown animal. Environmental DNA studies revealed only known species, most notably eels. While some speculate that giant eels could explain sightings, the lake's ecosystem makes sustaining a massive predator unlikely.

Despite this, Loch Ness remains difficult to study. Its depth, cold temperatures, and murky water ensure that uncertainty persists, allowing Nessie cryptid history to remain unresolved.

Boleskine House and Occult Echoes

Located on the southern shore of Loch Ness, Boleskine House adds another strange chapter to the region's history. Once home to occultist Aleister Crowley, the site has long been associated with disturbing legends, violent deaths, and paranormal activity.

Crowley's presence, combined with later ownership by musician Jimmy Page, reinforced the idea that Loch Ness is not merely a physical location but a spiritually charged environment where unseen forces gather.

Thought-Forms and the Power of Belief

One of the most compelling interpretations explored in the episode is that Nessie may be a thought-form—a manifestation created and sustained through centuries of belief. In this view, the Loch Ness Monster exists not as flesh and blood, but as a psychic or cultural entity.

This reframes Nessie cryptid history as a story about human perception, expectation, and the power of shared mythology.

Why Nessie Cryptid History Endures

Loch Ness remains compelling because it resists explanation. Its dangerous waters discourage constant exploration, while its deep cultural roots ensure that new sightings are always interpreted through centuries of legend.

Whether monster, myth, or manifestation, Nessie continues to endure as one of the world's most iconic cryptids—haunting the liminal edge between belief and skepticism.

Links from the Show

• What are Liminal Spaces and Why Do They Feel So Weird?
• Necronomicon & Cursed Books Explained
• Mothman and a Horrific Bridge Collapse
• The History of the Boogeyman
• Bigfoot, Sasquatch, and the Wild Man Tradition

Watch & Listen to the Full Episode

Enjoy where the conversations of silly meet strange at the Wondering Monsters Podcast.

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Licensing Information

• Title: Entry of the Gladiators
• Composer: Julius Fučík
• Library of Congress (Public Domain)
• Podcast theme song version edited/arranged/mixed by Dan Swift

Unless indicated, images appear in their original form.

Images were generated using AI from MyNinja.ai, NightCafe, lenso.ai, Gemini, or ChatGPT

Transcription

*Transcription was automatically generated and may contain errors.

(Music)

Baba: This place is kind of murky. It's been snowing and stuff. Loch Ness actually has been creepy for a while, seemingly back to the Ice Age. So Loch Ness is a really interesting and creepy place. And part of it is that there was a long before the Ice Age. I think there were many Ice Ages, but I'll just say the Ice Age. Before the Ice Age, there was a massive earthquake that basically tore apart Scotland, what we would now call Scotland, and leaving this major rift, this thing, which then got its own little glaciers. You know, they were available. So it got some glaciers, and then as they melted, it created three lakes, of which we will be talking about Loch Ness today. A responsible researcher would have the name of all three lakes. If you know a responsible researcher like that, put your name in the comments. But Loch Ness. So everybody knows the cause of the monster. Okay, we'll come back to that. And we'll keep coming back to that, because that seems to be sort of the thread that runs through it. It's older in that regard than one might think. Most people know of it from like, "Oh, well, in the 1930s, this guy got this photograph, which was later called a hoax." You wouldn't want to scare people away from the gloomy destination spot.

Danny C: And I'll interject real quick. I believe that is referred to as the "surgeon's photo." I think that's the name of it.

WDG: Yeah, I think it's actually the—and I think technically that's like the second photo, really, right? It's like the one that's like definitely a hoax of the—the first one was something else, or something I don't think it was. I don't know—I mean, I don't know that it is in fact real, but it was like—I think that it was likely— this might come back to it—Siatters or something of it. And the other one, the one that you're talking about, that—I think that one is— was the one where it was like definitely a hoax, like they got like props and things and stuff. You know, the other one might have been like just a coincidental like, "Oh, there's something there." You know, it's—and then it was a siya.

Baba: So there was a time when it was easy to create fake. Yeah, those were the days, man. And now here we go again. Now here we go again. Because now I could be like, "Yo, I have a freaking Loch Ness Monster bite," which would probably be like my entire torso. I somehow survived it due to my rigorous calisthenics. You believe that? I've got a space in Loch Ness to sell you. And then, yeah, we've got the—you could—I could have footage, but it could all be fake, right? It could all be AI. It could be, "How do you know the bite's real? How do you know I'm real?" You know?

WDG: Are you the Loch Ness Monster?

Baba: I took the chase. This has to last. I'm dragging this out as long as I can. Damn it. I'm dragging it out as long as I—that's not right. I was like Arnold Schwarzenegger beats—sorry, Arnold. Sorry, Scotland.

Danny C: All right. So Loch Ness, you're talking history a little bit. You're giving us a history lesson, which is something I always need because, you know, see previous episode.

Baba: Well, let's just talk about the spooky history of it. Okay, so we've got a couple main things we'll be talking about. I'm wearing my Jurassic Park shirt because part of what we'll be talking about is the possible prehistoric creatures that are still living there.

Danny C: Not a sponsor.

Baba: Not a sponsor. Jurassic Park is not— I heard they closed that place down. While they reassess their safety protocols, I definitely just drank the wrong tea, which is 700 degrees. I want to have sitting over here in front of the fan. It's only 400 degrees. I'll drink from that one. All right, so settled by various peoples forever and as most of those places taken over by peoples forever. We have the first report of a monster in the mid-500s. 566, I believe, is the date, and St. Columba. And there was a report of a swimmer attacked by a creature in what's called the River Ness, which is on the north end of Loch Ness. And it was attacked by this creature. When people get attacked by creatures at that point, now they call us, but they called Saints at that point. So they called St. Columba. They said, "Hey, you've got some sway." And St. Columba came out and, demonstrating the power of God over mysterious creatures, made it flee into the Loch, where apparently it has been for the last 1500 years or so. And so, okay, there's stories. It's a—no, we'll come back to the monster. We put it there. It's not going anywhere. It's been there for 1500 years. It can stay for 15 minutes or so. And we're going to talk about the Beleskine House. Okay, so first of all, Loch Ness, it's geographically speaking. It's super deep. It's something like 812 feet deep. And yeah, so I'm going to do it in feet.

WDG: I was going to say, I did a little bit of—because I don't know much about Loch Ness, but I did look it up. I saw it was that deep I was trying to do some comparisons to other extreme—like something like the Great Lakes, right? Yeah, like the—and see what they are. I think Lake Superior is like 1300 feet deep in its deepest. So it's like, that's deeper, but like it's also massive, where Loch Ness is actually pretty small for being as deep as it is. So it's like, it's like, I mean, like Lake Superior is almost like, you know, calling a lake might be under south the sides of it. It's more like a golfer or something like that, or a bay, you know, just happens to be locked in, no pun. But yeah, so that is like, that is pretty significant in depth for a fairly small lake, you know, so just a— Yeah.

Danny C: I'll also add real quick for our international friends, 800 feet, approximately 80 story building, figure out that height, massive, massive deep.

Baba: Yeah, yeah. And if you put an 80 story building in Loch Ness, it would be a liminal space inside of a liminal space. It would be metaliminal. It is dark and not because of the monster stories. It apparently has a lot of peat, which interferes with visibility issues and makes it very, very dark and a good place for monsters to hide. If you're interested in a hiding place in Loch Ness, send us an email at monstersrequest at Loch Ness. Wait, we don't know Loch Ness.

WDG: It's also just a threat. It's also very cold too. Extremely cold. Yeah, so it's like there's, yeah, it's, I mean, not that Scotland is exactly the warmest place, you know, but definitely Loch Ness is apparently, it's very—

Baba: It's the warmest place when it comes to the hearts of its people. Yes, I believe. And so we've got, yeah, there's a lot of peat in there. Also because of the peat, because of the shape of it, it has really, really weird acoustics. And the acoustics, if you're going to pick a place for a long lasting monster conspiracy, it's hard to get a better place except for outer space or the moon itself. Okay, because the acoustics make it really, really hard to scan it because the sonar creates interference patterns and things like that that make things look bigger than they are or more solid than they are and things like that. So it creates all kinds of problems for scientific research. In the interest of scientists—I said I was going to leave the monster and here I am again. It keeps coming back, and I do too. And so they did a—no, you know, I'll save the DNA thing. I'll save it for later. You were talking about the sonar thing.

WDG: Once there was something that I bumped across, this is something I love the lines of, like, one of the things they found was actually like the wreck from something that they used as a set for a Sherlock Holmes movie or something. I've been set. It was sunk in there. Yeah. It was like—I don't know if it's the Germany-Brent Sherlock Holmes, but it was definitely something like in the, like, I think like in the 70s or whatever that they were doing. That might have been earlier. There was like something like the Sherlock Holmes film, and they had something out on the lake and it sunk it, and it was something that was massive and that's something that they found with the sonar detection that was down there.

Baba: It could be that the monster was there right before because he was living there and left when it was—when they were coming over loud. When you eliminate the impossible, whatever's left, however improbable, must be the truth, right? So it's impossible—let's get back to—let's get back to the lock. Okay, so it's really hard to do like scans and things of it. But because of this, like, remember when we talked about liminal spaces? You're looking out over these gray, dark things in this remarkable sort of glen, and they call it—there's lots of biodiversity in the water and around it. You've got stories of this place that go back before, and we'll go back to that. But first, let's talk about a little feature on the southern end of the lake, of the lock called the Boleskine House. So Boleskine House was at one point a parish, a kirk, a Scottish word for church, was built on that location. And according to stories, the congregation was locked inside the church at some point, the church burned down, killing everybody in it. Later, it is a—but before it burns down, before this, before this burns down, there's a story of a—and the word they use is "wizard." So there was a church, a kirk, and a graveyard. And there was a—allegedly, there was a story of a wizard that raised the dead of the graveyard, and the parish priest had to painstakingly return all of the awakened corpses. We might call them zombies or animated dead or walking dead or something like that. Had to return them all to the graveyard. And in time for Sunday church, too. Can you imagine? You think you've had a bad week? So there's this story. Then later on, the church burns down with everybody in it, according to legend or story. So the wizard burnt the church down? Or all those guys were like, "Do you know how long it took us to raise from the dead? A few guys burned it down." So yeah, so we've got that. And then later it is—a hunting lodge is built in that location. And I believe the hunting lodge itself—I'm not mistaken, and if I am, you know what I'm going to say, people. Put it in the comments. Help us out. If I'm—the hunting lodge itself becomes what would then be called Beleskin House. Now Beleskin House—so in recent years, in 2015, if I'm not mistaken, there's a big fire at Beleskin House. You catching a theme here? And they've been in the midst of restoring it back to what it was like somewhere around the year 1899. Why is that? I'm glad you asked. Then it goes, "That is the year that none other than Alastair Crowley moves into Beleskin House." Alastair Crowley, sometimes called the wickedest man in the world, also referred to as the man we would like to hang. I believe that was the people of Sicily that might have termed him that. But anyway, he was a notorious 19th and early 20th century ritual magician who got kicked out of a bunch of countries in Europe by being controversial, pain in the ass, and doing things that just upset people of—look, 1870s, is that post-Victorian, I guess? What is that? No, I think you're still— It might still be Victorian or late Victorian or something. Well, whatever it was, they were more uptight than they are now, than we are now, some of us. Yeah, so Alastair Crowley, famous, something of a provocateur, mostly among occultists, but just in general. He likes being the center of attention, and he was doing this working. He had inherited a bunch of money, and he decides at this point that he is going to undertake what's called—I used to call it the Abramelin operation, because I learned about this stuff before the internet was around, and you could get consensus on how people were saying things. Some people say Abramelin. I'm probably just going to say Abramelin, because I'm just going to fall back into that. So the Abramelin operation is this thing where basically you do six months later on, a more complete version of the Abramelin operation surfaced. It's an old grimoire, an old magic book, that leads you to what is called the "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel," which sounds very white light right now, but actually angels are kind of freaky things, when you actually look at biblical angels and angel magic and stuff like that. So we won't get into that. But too much of a tangent. That's a whole different world. It's a tangentially and slowly overlapping world. The HGA, or the Holy Guardian Angel, is the end goal of this thing, and basically you are going to summon up what I believe in the book of Abramelin, referred to as the "Four Princes of Hell," and then they've got the dukes which are under them. And so basically you summon the princes of hell, you get them to go, "Bill, get your dukes in line in the name of all these weird god names and blah, blah, blah, and with the help of my HGA who's going to sort of beat you into submission or intimidate you." And so yeah, you've got basically the idea is that you summon up all these demons and then you bind them all so that they can't have a negative effect on your life anymore. And so that's what he's doing in this place. Now the beginning of the operation is mostly just prayer, but in his book, Confessions of Aleister Crowley, which is a painful read. I like Crowley after it says, but it's painful. It's the mountain climbing and chess and poetry and it's where are the demons? So he starts this operation, his sidekick and teacher of the Golden Dawn gets into some controversy in Paris. He gets pulled out in the middle of this big intense ritual that you're not supposed to interrupt. It's like six months long. I don't like that, but it looks like it's actually supposed to be about 18 months long. He gets pulled out of it and goes to Paris to defend his lodge master or whatever who's embroiled in this controversy with this magical lodge. Terrible idea to just stay there, but whatever, you know, a little late Monday morning quarterbacking here. So he eventually allegedly does complete the operation in reportedly in 1906 in China on some adventure he's on in China with his folks. So but while he's in the Baleskin house, he he's reporting these things as he's doing like the prayers and things like that. And he feels like he stirred up these untamed spirits of the place. He's not necessarily saying because in the beginning of this, you're not summoning demons and things like that. And apparently before he did this operation, he wasn't really in like the summoning game. He was more in like the theory kind of game. So he wasn't really doing this kind of stuff, but he reports paranormal activity in this in this house. Poltergeist phenomena. He reports that it's getting darker in there. And not only that, it's got an oppressive feel, but it's getting visibly darker. Like it's harder to see things in this place. And so he eventually runs off to Paris to meet up with Marshall McGregor Mathers, if I'm not mistaken. And you know, to have a word fight with a bunch of lodge people and then doesn't wrap up the ritual in time. Now, curiously, two years before he gets his HGA thing wrapped up in China, he has what is known as the reception of the book of the law in Egypt, in this sort of wild tale that I probably won't jump into now. But it's funny because it's like he's not really summoning things. He has this major event that's like the central thing of his magical career in Egypt. And then two years later, he completes the HGA thing. But meanwhile, he leaves this haunted house in the Beleskin house, which already like that. Already had like a weird kind of background history. And then you've also got Jimmy Page. Am I getting the right one?

WDG: I think it was Jimmy Page as part of his Al Sirquill collection.

Baba: Yeah. Yeah. So in

WDG: the level of Led Zeppelin, Zeppelin is a delightful historic phenomenon. But there's a but yeah, but Led Zeppelin, I'm pretty sure, did not do any recording or anything there. That was like that was kind of it was just part of Jimmy Page's like interest in the occult. And this was like a collectible item, like because when you're a rock star, I guess, and you collect. Yeah. Based on because you were a fan of like the occult, I guess, I guess it's just like, you know, if you're an actor and you like cars, you buy a lot of, you know, you buy some famous cars or something. Otherwise you buy the Beleskin house.

Baba: The Avenueville mansion and the, you know, all kinds of weird. Yeah. So so that is I think that's probably what I'll say about Aleister Crowley for the time being.

WDG: It does kind of when you talk about this ritual, it does kind of sound like it's like the sort of like a really bizarre like ritual magic version of like self-help. Like I'm going to bind all my demons and get my head in the weirdest kind of way.

Baba: I'm not saying like the 1960s, 1970s. And really it was like a little before then. But like there's this established trend of trying to couch everything occult in psychological terms. So it could be respectable occultists. It will never be respectable. Stop doing that. Stop. Stop it. Stop it with quantum physics. Stop it with the planes. Stop it. Anyway, done. But they want to count it in these psychological terms. So it like, yeah, like very much into like, I mean, like, yeah, depth, like depth psychology has its place in in all this magic and stuff. But when it comes down to like just explaining everything away as like, oh, yeah, well, I mean, even even Crowley referred to them in his later years as being aspects of the human consciousness. But it's not really clear that he actually what he thought these things were. He has contradictory statements on a lot of things. And so but yeah, it is. It's kind of strange. It's like this weird kind of thing of like objectifying things and then binding them using some symbol that has authority to you. And that someone could claim that that's what's happening. That doesn't usually result in poltergeist phenomena. But some could also claim that he was lying when it wasn't getting darker and there were in poltergeist phenomena. But it's cool.

WDG: They were already there. He was just, you know,

Baba: yeah, exactly. Why did you put this thing on the wall for this thing's idiots?

Danny C: So after he went to Egypt, he went to I think he said Paris. I don't remember the order in which it I think. Did you even say China? It doesn't matter.

Baba: Paris, Egypt, China. Yeah, those things. Yeah.

Danny C: Did he come back to the house or

Baba: think he does. I think he just kind of I think he just kind of sells it. Nope. Never went back. He just never went back. He's like, I'm not going to that place. It's freaky. It's got things crawling around in there. I'm just trying to travel around having illicit consensual experiences and altered state experiences. You know, I'm not really.

Danny C: So what's the next step for a lock now? So he leaves.

Baba: So he leaves. The house is still there. The house is still there. Jimmy Page gets it. Well, let's see. So he he left in 1902. Who is the next? Who is the next owner? I don't know. I had Jimmy Page as my next thing. I don't think it was unearned from 1902 to 1970s. Went into foreclosure. Yeah.

Danny C: Could not be sold.

WDG: All right. Here we go. It was owned by Connor. He chased his neighbor.

Baba: There's like a gap. There's like a gap history here. Like it's like what's going on here?

WDG: The poltergeist are just like, you know, it's kind of got a like like a shining kind of vibe. Just the ghosts are just running the joy.

Baba: OK, so we've got so he sells it in 1913. So he probably owned it and just sat vacant for that time. It passes through a few hands. Doesn't mention who. And I know a lot of the owners actually wanted to be like kind of secretive about the thing because you got all these weird people creep around the house, you know, and it's. Yeah, let's see. It goes. Yeah, so there's there's a list of them, but it's really until it goes to Jimmy Page that it it's not really too interesting after that. And then a little ways later, a Dutch couple is 2002. It was being used as a holiday home and severely damaged by a fire in December of 2015. And now it's owned by the Boleskine House Foundation. It's kind of appropriate, depending on how bad the fire damage was. But yeah, so I mean, it's I think but I think that's kind of like the I mean, they're like local reportings of like ghosty things around it. But I think it's really I think that's pretty. But a lot of the things around Loch Ness, some people are like, oh, well, this is because in the late 1800s. Here's this guy, Aleister Crowley, that buys this thing and summons a bunch of demons in it, which is not entirely accurate. And then they're all around because he never wrapped up his business. But the funny thing is that it like because it had an association with magic already, this is kind of like a weird thing about that property. Now, Loch Ness itself has a long history of belief in kelpies. Kelpies are shape shifting aquatic water horse things of Scottish lore. And the folks that lived in this area, I believe will refer to the pics, I believe, P I C T S. And so it's like when you go back to I'm looking at Colombo times now. Okay, so I'm looking at like 500 600 C.E. that kind of realm. But this these stories seem to predate that the stories of kelpies and kelpies are water horses that can shape shift and can they drown you, they lead you to the water and they drown you. And so horses, long necked things living in the in Loch Ness. So actually, there are some people that say the thing they're calling the Loch Ness monster. It's kelpies kelpies sometimes appear in the form of a handsome man to try to lure young women in the form of a beautiful woman to lure young men. I don't have to be 18th century about this or anything to lure appropriate people who might find attractive women and men to be attractive to repeat myself. And then finally, sometimes in the form of a giant hairy man who smashes people going by it sound familiar? Just saying, you know, so associated with poltergeists, you

Danny C: know, the concept of the kelpies, it reminds me of sirens and this whole idea where it's basically like, hey, people, pay attention. You're gonna wreck your ship. Hey, people, stay away from this water. You might end yourself. Be careful.

Baba: Yeah, the word monster, the etymology of the word monster actually derives from the word warning. So you're not too far off. And I mean, it might also have been that like, if monsters are showing up, it's a warning that you're like, you are out of sync with the, I don't know, whatever the equivalent of the divine plan would have been at that time that that word came into existence.

WDG: Since you kind of mentioned earlier, to add into our long-ready list of liminal space in like high-lived Scottish ritual beliefs, like there's like, you know, the three, like, I guess like, I don't know if it's like almost a three spheres or whatever, but you have like the earth, the water, like the air and they're associated. And like, so water is like the, like air is like the, you know, above like kind of spiritual realm versus where you occupy and the water is like the in-between realm. And in places like already around Loch Ness and stuff, there's already like burial grounds and, you know, like all kinds of like things that were all like there too before. And for what I said too, it's very like flat and reflective, you know, too. So like, you see the sky largely reflected in it. And it's like, there's this kind of like, potentially like ritual, you know, at least or like spiritual connection to that, that like the water is like the kind of bridge between, you know, the, like the other realm sort of, you know, so there's that kind of like, you know, at least in that sort of tradition, which makes sense. Why monsters could come out of it, I guess, or try to drag you into it, you know, it's like, yeah,

Baba: summoning monsters, one on one, liminal space required. Yes.

WDG: But a really big screen. You can't find one. You make one. Yeah. Oh, man.

Baba: Yes. So, um, I'm gonna go on so many tangents, but I won't. I'm getting better, believe it or not. Do you believe it? So down in the thing, write us write us a letter. Where were we going? You guys start talking. I'm sure people are still on here. They're tired of hearing me.

Danny C: What do you think? You all go fishing? So real quick, these are kind of tangentially related. I have this list in front of me. We have, and I'm going to butcher the pronunciation of all of these because see previous episode. We have similar type creatures in, oh, Kanagan Lake in Canada. We have Lake Champlain. Yeah. We have Lake Ikeda in Japan. We have Lake Brosno in Russia. We have Lake Tiennachi in China slash North Korea. And we have Lake in Iceland. I don't even got to try to pronounce that one. Sorry. I can give you a crack up. Pretty good at this.

WDG: I'm also getting messing up those terms.

Danny C: So I don't know anything about these other lakes as far as the the eeriness, as far as the depth of the lakes, you know, the darkness. I don't know if there are any comparative features, but those are about a half dozen that I came across that have similar monster type things. And this list, I don't know what the Ogepogo is. Champ is like a Nessie kind of thing. The Ishii Koon Koon in Japan. I don't know what that is. Brosno is more like a dragon kind of thing. The Lake Tiennachi monster. I don't know what that is. But the one in Iceland is more like a worm. OK. But I know if you're in your in your research, if you came across any of these or if you can can or wants to elaborate. But that's what I got.

Baba: Yeah, I did not. I did come across and I decided not to go down that because I figured it'd be hard enough to rein in already. I did encounter this notion of these recurring lake monster things. There are actually one right near Loch Ness called Loch Morar, I believe, Morar. And the creature that is reported to be in there is called the Morag. And it's and I believe it's alleged to be similar. In fact, one of the big researchers of Loch Ness, who I think is more in the debunking. Part because that's usually what they're doing anyway. And the is a he built a submersible, a little submarine back in, I want to say again, probably like in like the 70s or so to do an analysis of that. And he did not find a monster there. But, you know, I think it was just kind of his testing ground and then, you know, make sure the submersible or work until you get near the real monster. You know,

WDG: like I said, something interesting about the like the weird like 30s, like 1930s with like the different pictures and things like that. And the Loch Ness Monster changing from this kind of like possibly historic like mythological kind of creature thing to like it's like a dinosaur also sort of coincides with like the release of King Kong and the popularity of like the depiction of the long, neck dinosaur. You know, it's like so there's so that's kind of a thing that seems like as well, you know, popular consciousness. Yeah, like it's kind of like a combination. And I do want to throw out that I like that I kept coming across it like one of the possibilities was like sea otters and like a dinosaur. And it was like one that was like the story of a guy who's like on a motorcycle and he was at night very similar to like our mothman story. He sees this thing out the whatever like he's probably was far away from it. It was probably like an otter, you know, and and also others can swim in packs and they seem like like replying to the water, you know, it's like, that kind of makes sense. And it's just like, I don't maybe think of like the mothman thing about like, maybe it's like, like two owls and a trench coat. Maybe it's a bunch of sea otter.

Danny C: I know very little about sea otters, but I do remember that Loch Ness is fresh water to see otters live in fresh water.

WDG: Yeah, well, you know, various yeah, like otters. Yeah, they do like their. So it's a apparently there's a population in there.

Baba: And dinosaurs do not at least please. Your swears did not live in fresh water. So here comes the thing. So the leading theory in in the mid 20th century was that it was a plesiosaur. That it was a plesiosaur, a surviving member of a long thought extinct species of dinosaur thought to be extinct something like 66 million years ago. It would not be the first time that we encountered something we thought was extinct. Far from it. But the one that comes to mind when it comes to sea creatures is the coelocanth, a prehistoric fish thought to be extinct something like 80 million years ago and was discovered again in the I just call everything that happened in the 20th century, mid 20th century, in the mid 20th century, in the 1970s in Japan, in the in the waters off of Japan, if I'm not mistaken. And so and now I don't know if they're more common now. You know, can you go and get your coelocanth steak at your most expensive local restaurant? Probably not.

WDG: I think coelocanth, the thing is like they have to be fairly deep underwater. And it was just kind of happenstance that they caught this one in a fishing net or whatever. Like they're usually like, I guess, you know, you're not there because I think that was like the problem is like once they came up to the higher depth, they will like are up from the lower depth to shower water. They'll die. Like so it was like hard. You can't you can't keep them alive in like an aquarium or something for study. I'm pretty sure. All right. It's like something to do. Yeah, because just, you know, just like we can't go to a lower depth. I guess certain says we

Baba: can we can see my Jesus, though. Can somebody catch me a coelocanth?

WDG: You can make a I see what can't

Baba: eat it. Yeah. Can you bite?

WDG: No, but you can make a you eat a I saw. Oh, man.

Baba: Yeah, I guess that's as good as it gets for now. All right. So probably not a please you're also that the lake does the lock does not. I think it's a word for Lake is it doesn't support it doesn't have the food supply to support something like that.

Danny C: I was thinking the same thing because just recently the Bigfoot episode is very fresh in my head and remembering how much food a Bigfoot would need, how much land it would need. My mind immediately jumped to how much food this thing would need. I mean, I don't know how big it's supposed to be like 20 feet long or something ridiculous like that. Does anyone know like that?

Baba: Yeah. Not offhand. What was it?

Danny C: It's measured it so we can make up with 60 feet long and

Baba: 300 feet tall. It's seven and a half.

WDG: What's the size of a please? You're sure how many see others make some please? You're sure

Baba: that's what I'm going to ask that exactly. How many orders would it take in a row to equal the length of a please?

Danny C: I solve this.

Baba: This is what we're doing with this before it kills us all. This is

WDG: this might also destroy it accidentally. This is this kind of questions.

Baba: It would take. It would take approximately three see otters. That's that's that's that's perfectly acceptable.

WDG: That's perfectly acceptable about to put in a trench coat to make a please.

Baba: All right. So the otter is approximately one point two meters. OK. OK. So that is five feet, I think. Ballparks. Five feet. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the tail to the end and please. You sure, apparently, is only three to five meters. That's tiny. I mean, compared to what I thought these OK. So that's like twenty five or fifteen

WDG: feet. Yeah. So like a basically like a little shy of a school bus, you know, I guess, or a bus bus. Yeah.

Baba: All right.

Danny C: Well, I guess maybe it could be a please. Yes. Or that small.

Baba: Maybe they don't eat that much. They have small heads. If you remember the deep thoughts that laid out the science with this, that they should they should science should create a dog with a small head, but a very large body. This way, it would still be a guard dog, but it wouldn't eat that much. Solid reasoning. Solid, solid reasoning.

Danny C: What do we go from here?

Baba: All right. So it's a fresh water, please. Yes, or so.

WDG: So we've got just an alligator or crocodile. We got flushed down, you know, into the into the lock.

Baba: We're still working on that theory.

WDG: Yeah. Alligators in the sewer. You know, that's just the.

Baba: If you buy please, you don't release them into the freshwater lake.

WDG: Definitely don't flushes up the ecosystem and it confuses the science.

Baba: Find the thing. OK, boss. OK, so giant eels, giant eels are another suspect and screaming, screaming eels shrieking shrieking. Yeah, so we've got the giant eels as a possibility, although once again, going back to food supply, it is argued that there isn't enough for them to eat there, so it could not sustain because you don't just have one. Right. You have to have like a small enough population that it's reproducing. And it has to also account for some of them are not going to get to reproduce, even though presumably it would be the top predator. So. So, yeah, giant eels are another possibility. Now, they did a DNA DNA analysis of the lake by taking samples from like twenty five or whatever different locations in Loch Ness to see what kinds of creatures they could detect in the lake. And there and no weird ones came up except for eels. Now, giant eels and normal size eels would be essentially, I'm not gonna say the same DNA, but essentially the same, you know, unless you're really going diving deep. Pardon the pun in the DNA world, then like it's going to be incredibly similar. And so. So it doesn't seem like the scientific evidence has turned up proof that that there is a monster living in there. And it also is hard to disprove because of the unique acoustics and the depth and just the. The size of the damn thing and like, you know, what if there's a way in and out of it that they don't know about yet? You know, I don't know. I mean, I don't think it's been entirely mapped. They just found out relatively recently that it was as deep as eight hundred and twelve feet and so. Any stories. Thank you. So, yeah, so but that does remind me of something else. Yes, that we talked about recently and I mentioned already and the population of interdimensionally traveling entities. That are a possibility and the possibility of something that seems to be an animal that is actually something paranormal. That is something like, all right, I'll just throw it out there like this. What if the Loch Ness Monster is a ghost or what if the Loch Ness Monster is a kelpie that doesn't it's not a creature that lives in the water? So we don't know about shape shifting creatures. That's like a paranormal thing. We might talk about werewolves at some point. What if it's that and people are seeing it because they're gazing across this liminal space in these weird things and messing with their psychic stuff and they're tapping in all these weird ideas and this weird. Because it's not necessarily that a monster had to really be there so much as what if the human mind up, throwing all kinds of things out there. What if the human mind is capable of creating paranormal phenomena when it organizes over time in a similar location or a similar, you know.

Danny C: And that's one thing I read about was that the possibility that it's just a tulpa, not just, but it's a tulpa.

Baba: Same idea. Yeah, like it's yeah, like some kind of a thought form or a human built entity that has some degree of independent existence separate from the individual people that feed into it. So the idea is like you might have people in the year 600 that are feeding into it like sure they die off, but then there are other people that are there that are continuing to feed into this kind of thing, you know, and that it doesn't really need a food supply like that. And if it's a if it's the equivalent of a mass hallucination, well, we might look at something like. What was it, the Our Lady of Fatima? But nobody asked whether there was a food supply for a 75 foot tall Mary.

WDG: Well, maybe someone should ask that question. That's 17-foot-tall.

Baba: She's as tall as Loch Nessus deep, damn it. What if the monster is a paranormal phenomena? I make myself lightheaded with all this. I might start seeing things here.

WDG: But there's something also like that's like always like, you know, when a local thing stays persistent, you know, I think like having a good local monster is fun. It's like, but there's like, I think if Loch Ness were like a sunny beach resort, we wouldn't be talking about a Loch Ness. But the fact that like the lake is like very cold, it's not like you're not going to go swimming in it pretty much any time of year because you'll get like hypothermia. Like it's really if you want to be a diver going into it, you have to be an experienced diver. And why is that? Like, why are you that interested? There's probably other places you could go and dive. Yeah, like boating can get rough. It's like it's mostly like good to observe things from the shore or stay on. It's not like there's a lot of like decent fishing, I guess, like, you know, it's like there's plenty of other places again to go that are things. And there's even other locks that are much nicer than you can go and swim in. So it's like so that kind of keeps it from, you know, that whole like, oh, it's harder to explore and therefore it's harder to, you know, it keeps the myth alive a little more, you know, whereas it's like, you know, if it was like, well, people are always going swimming in there and diving their submarines in there and nothing's there, you know, it's like, so I think that that certainly helps. It's kind of already sort of dangerous area and dangerous in other respects of like, you know, like it's been a kind of hotbed for occulty type things or ancient ritual type things. And there's so that gives it like, it adds on like that other extra layer that, you know, a lot of other not every place gets to have like, you know, no one's going around being like, oh, well, you know, down in like, you know, Cape May or something, the Delaware Bay. There's all this ritual magic going on, you know, it's like, you know, yeah, that we could have killed our own monster, you know, but yes, I kind of feel like that that helps keep it, you know, keep the thing alive, you know, so to speak.

Danny C: One thing I thought was interesting and I don't know enough about human, can I say migration? Does that make sense? Where humans traveled, you know, or, you know, throughout the world. But I thought it was interesting that the lake I mentioned in Russia and the one in Japan and Iceland, okay, they are all between ballpark 1200 to 1400. So it's like the same within that timeframe, you know, you had three very different parts of the world reporting a very similar kind of thing. I thought that's kind of cool, kind of interesting.

Baba: Is that the beginning of the so-called Age of Enlightenment? 1200?

WDG: No. Was it?

Danny C: No, it was later.

WDG: No, it's like, it's like, What took them so long? To be like 1685. 1600s. Yeah, I was gonna say it's like post Newton, you know,

Danny C: like three weeks ago. And somebody is still unenlightened.

Baba: That's when they forgot everything about monsters. The easy explanation, I guess, would be like, well, it was when people were still stupid. They're not anymore. And they believed in these things. But now, no, I think that's a terrible explanation because, first of all, I don't think people were were much less intelligent than me. They're more intelligent than they are right now. They just had different frames of reference for the different criteria for what they considered real or legitimate. But I don't know, like, sailors have stories of all kinds of weird things, right? Is it just because they're out in the water?

WDG: The sea does kind of make you mad, I think. I think it's hard to conceive. Okay, so just like, okay, just the other night, I was on, I was taking a ferry ride. Like, I was just, why I was thinking of Cape May. I was coming home. And I, because of like snowstorms and things like that, I had to take a delayed ferry. And it was, it's basically from Cape May into Delaware, like Cape May, New Jersey to lose Delaware. So you cross over the Delaware Bay, and it was choppy as hell. And it's like nighttime. And this is like, ferry is like, it's like rocking and stuff like that. Delaware Bay is not far out. You're not in the ocean. But like, at a certain point, things are just lights and stuff on the horizon. And that's all you see. And then, and because it's like nighttime, the only thing I could see is like occasionally a light going by or a light on the horizon that would go like this, up and down. Because it was like, it was rocking hard enough that things were falling in the commissary, stuff like that. It wasn't a, you know, so it was like, it was pretty, and cold, very cold. So it's like, I can't imagine like, just being like a, you know, in the early age of exploration, kind of sailing, you know, you have some ideas and concepts, like you've worked out for quite some time, you know, like, like of how to navigate about the stars and things like that, you know. It's just like, but you're still just going. You're just out there. Like, there's nothing for a long time. And even if it's like, oh, well, it only took us a month to, that's a long time. Or even if you like said, oh, well, we bumped along like we went from, like, say, like, to get to the, like, you know, like the Vikings traveling across into Canada, you know, they bumped along, like, you know, Greenland, Iceland, and blah, blah, came down and over. That's still a lot, to be honest, a boat. Even if you get to stop, like, even if it's like days on a boat, like, where nothing's around and you're like rowing and or sailing, like, that's a lot. I think it's enough to probably make it a little, like, you know. So here's a

Danny C: fun idea. Okay. So talking about sailors and stories, what if there are just stories to pass the time, you know, like you're out at sea for a month. Man, guys got to watch that sea serpent. Got to make sure, you know, got to, got to pay attention. Got to make sure it doesn't get us, you know, I thought I saw it. No, no, it's okay. It's just an honor. We're good.

Baba: What about fishermen that aren't out to sea for long? Talk to me. You know what I mean? Okay, so. All right, so.

WDG: I mean, was it just coming out and back? They're just like.

Baba: Okay, so for instance, if you go to like, beginning of the common era, fishing in the Mediterranean, you know, like, you're not going out for days, you know, you're going out probably very early and probably coming back, like, late afternoon or something like that. But like, so I wonder if those stories, I mean, now, the story of the Leviathan. Is from. The Mediterranean. And that also does not have. Whales or anything like anything that big in it. And so people are familiar with the story of Jonah and the whale. It's not a whale. It's the Leviathan. Which is a creature God created to sport and play in the waves. Like, it's a really weird mention in the Bible. It's a pet. Yeah, it's his pet. It's like God's favorite pet. And it might be more like a dragon than it is like a whale. But people just say, oh, it was probably a whale because I'd be big enough to swallow a person. You got to read this thing more closely. There's some really weird stuff in this collection of books. The Bible, you know. But yeah, so what about that story?

WDG: Well, I guess the Mediterranean seeming like you get pretty rough. I mean, wasn't there a whole, you know, Odyssey that seemed to have a story. And that was just getting around the Mediterranean a little bit.

Baba: Was that just the Mediterranean? I never knew where Troy was supposed to be. I read the Odyssey. I just never read the Bible.

WDG: Yeah, I mean, it's all within like the Greek, you know, region, which is just in the Mediterranean.

Baba: Well, if you got Cyclops and gods and things effing with you. Yeah, it will take you ten years. And sirens, like the.

WDG: And sirens. luring gets here again. luring people to their doom.

Baba: Yeah. So like these these are like folks that aren't like going out for necessarily. I mean, in that case, it was a long period because they were going out to war, you know, but like. But yeah, I wonder. And that might be something that that requires more exploration just to see about sailor stories and pirate stories and things. Because I'm going to.

WDG: Well, there was something there was this.

Baba: Oh, no. I showed an albatross and everybody died. I forget to summarize it like that.

Danny C: So talking about the ocean as liminal space and, you know, the concept of the liminal space with the lock is, I think it'd be very interesting if you heard stories. And this I'm fairly certain this doesn't happen very often. But people in the desert, you know, what kinds of things, what kind of stories that came out of that, you know, like the sand monster or the same worm.

WDG: You know, genie. Like, yeah, it's like and like, which are not like the wish granting fun thing. They're not.

Baba: They don't like you. They like you.

WDG: Or just like the desert, like the stereotypical desert hallucination or like the oasis that isn't real or like the upside down city in the sky or things like that. That comes down from like desert, like you

Danny C: ever seen photos of those? No. There's a term for really, really cool where it looks like it looking out at the at the ocean, you see like a ship that's like actually it looks like it's floating. But it's actually it's really cool. Really cool. You got a chance. Check it out.

Baba: Yeah. The cover up story is officially that it has to do with the refraction of light and the way it plays with your own ability to perceive it. But that's a. But we all know that's not true because then how would you explain those cities? Up there. So. Anybody.

Danny C: So you have the gin. Are there are there any other like desert monsters?

Baba: There's got to be. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are because. OK, so there must be. And because like the wilderness itself just seems to be a place where. OK, so I'm going back up for a second. I'll talk about. Sailors are like really, really good at reading the signs around them. Right. And I just mean the waves are doing something. The sky is doing something. The clouds are doing something. The position of the stars. All that stuff is being taken into account. They got like really, really good at it. And it's like like not that hard to have a disaster. So it's like you really have to be paying attention. I imagine particularly. Gone back. You know, another group of people that are going to be like, you know, another group of people that often have that they're often the people that spot a paranormal event, possibly paranormal event in the woods. And that paranormal event is called Bigfoot. And those people are called hunters who are actually like used to sitting in a deer stand and staring for hours and like eating something that doesn't smell like anything, I guess. So you don't know the things you're trying to. I mean, like sitting for hours, staring out and and most of them never see Bigfoot. But some of them do. And they'll like swear by it. You know, and and there's actually like some. Here I go. There's actually some convincing stuff out there. It's going to be less convincing now and going forward because there's it's a video. You guys remember Predator, the movie Predator? Yeah, when Predator moves around. Speaking of Arnold. Sorry, Arnold. I wasn't trying to impersonate you earlier. And when the predator moves and it's cloaked, it's like it's like it warps space. Right. So there's this lady. You probably Google this and it'll come or I'll get the link to our organizer. There's this lady that has this video footage of this weird warping of space while they're sitting there filming, looking for weird stuff to happen. But this warping of like it looks like that, like it looks like it's like something invisible came through and messed up the light waves or something somehow. And it's like, well, what was that? You know, I mean, I'm saying Bigfoot

WDG: is just the predator. I don't know if I hope that or don't.

Baba: I don't hope that I. I hope Bigfoot's more like Harry and the Henderson's. But no, I think Bigfoot's more like the boogeyman popping in and out and probably not all the same thing either. But I'm

Danny C: picturing big trees with doors. It just kind of like walks in while it walks out and out there.

Baba: Sorry, sorry, didn't realize you were in here. That's the wood knocking is the slamming doors. Oh, man. So let's talk about Nessie and Loch Ness itself. You know, we didn't come up with a little game for the end of this. We will start doing that. Random draw card or rolling a die or something like that. But you're most likely explanation for a. You're most I'll give you two most likely explanations for what Nessie is and followed by your monster rating. Would you want to encounter?

WDG: Are we getting rid of all the taking all the occult weird aspects out of the.

Baba: No, if that's your best explanation.

WDG: OK, it's just fine.

Baba: And in fact, I will charge through that door that the idiotic door. I will charge through it and say, I think Nessie. Is a. Spirit, I think it is a spiritual phenomena. It is either a psychic experience of people gazing out over liminal space and seeing something in the distant past or it is a straight up thought form. Or Dan, you had mentioned the notion of like a tulpa or like something that people have fed into and created this thing. Those are much more likely than people are just full of it. And also, if I have to go with a physical explanation, I'll break my own rule. It's sea otters riding on a police. You swore thinking about salt water. All right. I don't want to encounter any of these things. I don't think in fact, Loch Ness does sound like my place to be. I do want to visit the lesson house. OK, so that's so the lesson house. I'll give three monsters. What do you think? I want to go there anyway.

WDG: Restoration done. Can you tour it yet?

Baba: Twenty twenty six, I believe, is when it's supposed to be opening up again.

WDG: Well, that sounds good.

Baba: So we're still welcome anywhere else in the world. We haven't alienated everybody.

WDG: We haven't alienated everybody.

Baba: Or by our stupid. Just what stupid things could we hear?

WDG: I'll say I'll save it on the thing of the thing. So, yeah, I think I'll go to the like the explanation. I was going to say sea otters hanging out with eels. But I was like, but yeah, I'm not. And I don't think since no one's ever been attacked by Nessie and stuff like that, it doesn't sound like it's that scary. Loch Ness itself does sound scary in the sense of like it just seems like a dangerous place. Like in like there's a lot of places in like the highlands that are kind of danger like you fall in a bog and die or something. There does seem to be like a dangerousness to it. But so I'll give the whole thing. I'll give it a I'll give it a three to because I also do like a local. I really do like a local monster. And I think Loch Ness probably needs the tourism, you know, and it probably deserves it. So it's like whether you're going to visit the restored creepy house or you're going to try to see the Loch Ness Monster. Just don't go swimming, obviously. And, you know, when I throw some tourist money at Loch Ness because probably could probably be decent. And I don't know. So that's my. So three solid three.

Baba: All right.

Danny C: So so for me. OK, so there was a TV show probably probably started about 15 years ago, maybe 20 years ago, called How I Met Your Mother. And then there's just one episode where they're talking about each other's the bad habits that they kind of blocked out. They didn't really notice. You know, we all have bad habits and we kind of like we just don't notice them. And in this episode, they are pointing them out. It's like, oh, yeah, you do that. That is annoying. That kind of a thing. And that they when it happens, when they have that moment of realization, there's like the sound of a glass shattering like that. A moment almost. And for me during our chat today, that happened when I realized just how small a plesiosaurus is. I really thought they were larger. And when I saw it was only one like like ballpark, 15 feet, one and a half stories, you know, it was just like, ah, no. To see something like that far away and it has to be around 15 feet tall. I mean, it's going to be small and it could be really anything. For me now, I think this is 100 percent. People are misidentifying things, whether it's a log, whether it's an eel, whether it's sea otters, whether it's Bigfoot, you know, but I don't think I don't think that's the thing I would give this. I would give this a one. I think it's nothing to it. That's the most likely the most unlikely. I kind of like the idea of and this is tied. I like the idea of either a tulpa or the ghost of a plesiosaurus. I think both those ideas are kind of fun to play with. But most most likely, I think, no, they're just people's people want to see something that's just our eyes playing tricks on them.

Baba: And of course, these two are wrong. You should definitely also go to Loch Ness and buy their stuff, especially the plesiosaurus stuff. So, yeah, so what, what, but, Dan, how about Beleskin House, the haunted once burned down church zombie graveyard, Alastor Crowley, Demon House, Jimmy Page, rock star, Alyssa substance house.

Danny C: You're just dropping names now.

Baba: You're scared of Jimmy Page?

WDG: You should be. Double neck guitar. He's definitely 80 years old.

Danny C: I like a good one now. So I would love to check that out. That would be fun. I haven't heard much about it. I from what you were actually let me present. I know nothing about aside from what you were talking about earlier. So I don't know if anything still happens today, allegedly or not. But I think that'd be cool. I'm always game for seeing weird stuff.

Baba: So if you're a rock star, considering buying the last game, buy it for me. You have the money. I don't have the money. This is all I have. This is as close as it gets for me.

Danny C: So this could be the fun game. Okay. So we talked about, you know, actors, you know, very wealthy and buying things to collect them just to collect them, whether it's cars, you know, or housing, whatever. So given a large sum of money, you hit you win the powerball tomorrow or whatever it is. Powerball for everyone that's, you know, not not familiar with it is a very large lottery starts at 20 million USD. As of this recording, it's up over a billion. So and this is, you know, two thousand twenty five dollars, you know, the year, you know, that's the kind of dollars we're talking about here. So you win this powerball. You have a ton of money. What is something that you're going to buy an obscene amount of go.

WDG: I'm trying to think of something fun, like funny because usually it would probably just be like art for some. You know, it's just like, yes. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't buy a haunted house. That's for certain. Oh, good. Then we don't have to compete. Yeah. I'll send them to Chris. I'll help you. Land like. So I could go out to see and see all these.

Baba: Stare out and see if it really does.

Danny C: Maybe we'd have to fund the Kickstarter for that seance play. Maybe that's what we'd have to do.

Baba: Yeah. Well, I I for my money, it's hard to find a better thing to buy than a bunch of haunted houses, maybe haunted churches. I always wanted to live in a church like wean. And they live in a church. Yeah, I think they're cool. I mean, I wouldn't leave it like that. Maybe I would. Not a fan of the opera style.

WDG: You're just in there all the time. It's like the previous owner still lives here. You actually do still live there.

Baba: Yeah, I definitely buy haunted things. I definitely I probably probably haunted houses because they're. Yeah, I think that's kind of good, starting with the lesson house.

Danny C: A picture in the TV series Friday the 13th and like that magic shop around items

Baba: and it had nothing to do with that.

WDG: Yeah, I think it was just like supposed to be a different show and they just. I think about that show way more often than you probably probably should. So

Danny C: there was this one episode where the guy has like I think it's like a cursed Corvette or something like that. And he wears the key on like a string around his neck or something like that. And I think he ends up dying, but it gets like impaled by like the car crashes and impales. And I think is what happens. I could be wrong fact checkers, you know, comments. But when I go to work, I put on my ID, I throw on and then I have my office key. I also throw on and every time I get in the car, I think about that.

Baba: That's yeah, that series. I was always trying to figure out how it connected. And it's just like, well, Friday the 13th is just a thing on its own. The real question is why the hell did they name Friday the 13th? Friday the 13th.

WDG: Yeah, but I don't know. Maybe one of the. And nothing to do with it. Yeah, did the first one. I'm trying to think where the one that made sense right before it went all crazy was just like an old lady killing teenagers because she didn't like their morals, you know, or something.

Baba: In other news, why was she able to take out the teenagers like that? Like they usually have strong old age.

WDG: Yeah, but you just but if you sneak up on them.

Baba: Yeah. Yeah, because they're in the middle of the. Yeah, that's not what you think. Yeah.

WDG: So that's.

Baba: Don't play that video game. Oh, man. Yeah. So, um. Damn, what would you collect? What? I thought

Danny C: we said about buying haunted houses. I kind of like that. Um, yeah, right.

WDG: Don't say experiences because I'm a guy. No, no, no, no, that doesn't count.

Danny C: I'm trying to think of something ridiculous. I could try to like buy up all of it so no one else could have it just to do it just for fun. You know, like. No, I was gonna say scary dolls. I definitely don't want that.

WDG: No, don't you love it. That's like that's a bad. That's a that's a dead. You got to unload them to occasionally.

Danny C: Oh, God.

WDG: Haunted rather haunted houses. I think the haunted hotel is kind of a little more fun like the like shining thing with a cool maze and stuff like something like that. Because it's like you have more opportunity for space. You know, you can just be like, yeah, you got the haunted pool hall part or the haunted bar. You know, the. You can have a sign a release multiple spots in just one location and if it's prime location, you know, that's like got a pretty cool place as well.

Baba: I am I think I'm down for the haunted hotel thing to haunted locations in general are just kind of.

Danny C: Yeah, I agree. I think definitely something haunted and I would monetize it for sure. I would definitely I would go that road. I would go all out, you know. Or maybe even buy people's houses that it's, you know, allegedly haunted and just try to monetize it. I'd be all over that.

Baba: I'd be so much fun places that look like they should be haunted and get them to be haunted.

Danny C: Exactly.

WDG: Hopefully, not through depending what you're doing. I guess if you're doing broken ritual magic that you screw up, you know, have demons everywhere.

Baba: Or if you just wander around and find all the restless dead and be like, you can live. You raise them up. You know, you find out what that wizard did at ball skiing.

Danny C: That's what I do that we have to just kind of go back in time, right?